You don't think greed is playing a role in the price of gas right now? Or the fact we are bringing in oil and not using what's under our soil? Or this whole "green" movement isn't powered by the mighty dollar? (that's where it started, but tree huggers took it to a new culture). If you took every Hummer off the face of the planet it wouldn't make a 000000.1 % of a difference in our environment

GM is pulling a blanket over their heads and not doing what really should be done here. I doubt if the lack of sales is based on what people really think about the environment. it's more like they want to get from point A to point B with the best MPG. The whole Witch hunt mentality towards Hummers and GM only proves the ignorance of people haven't changed since we were living in caves.

 

Hummer will survive, but it may not be under GM's Ownership. I do hope that it stays in American hands for 'brand credibility' as well as UAW Workers.

As for this other discussion that has spawned, I don't like to get political on automotive message boards but here goes! Drilling for Oil Domestically will take nearly a decade to produce any significant production level. Even at full production, with investment costs related to site drilling, we could only lower the price of oil by around ONE DOLLAR a barrel. This would not lead to ANY change at the pump and would lead to no more than 5% less dependance on foreign oil sources. The money that we would spend over the next decade to accomplish this could be invested in better ethanol sources similar to Brazil, who is nearly 100% energy independent. Why waste money, bring any harm to our nation's natural beauty, and waste time putting off solving a problem that will come back to us in the future? We should stop worrying about gas prices and start worrying about our energy future! This government has been dragging the ball since Ronald Reagan was elected in the 1980's. He may have been a great communicator but he was a do-nothing President and left us with more problems that we had before. You may not like the idea of 'taxes' since most of us are well-off, but let's get real! We're in massive debt in this nation because a President decided to cut taxes during a war and unless you want to leave that debt to your children and grandchildren it's time to face the music. Most of you will probably vote for John McCain because of predispositions, but take another look and you'll see (even if you don't want to see) that we can't afford another President who cuts taxes on us (well-off Americans) and spends like the devil. The job of your government is not to create problems, it's to help you solve them and protect your liberties. we must solve the infrastructure and energy problems of this country NOW or we'll have a much greater problem at a later stage. I'm willing to pay my part because it's the American thing to do, not the selfish thing to do, and I hope that everyone else starts acting like Americans again too.

P.S. don't take any of this personal as we can all disagree and still get along, that's what America is supposed to be about: Ideas!

 

I can't figure out why my keyboard keeps putting " instead of a regular apostrophe (by the way).

 

The job of the government is not to solve our problems, it is to get out of our way. ( Federal government is for national defense, intersate commerce, etc not making sure I have health care or a retirement.) That is my personal responsibility. Not sure where you get your facts and figures on oil production, supply, benefit but your statistics are incorrect and the 10 year deal, well if Clinton had not put ANWR off limits 11 years ago ANWR oil would be available today. I agree that we should not waste time on working on alternative forms of energy but to break this country in the process is ridiculous. Its like killing the patient to cure the disease. Drill now, off shore and ANWR, use the shale oil resources, etc to bridge the gap until nuke plants, solar, wind, hydrogen, etc can all be developed and implemented. While people are losing their homes, cars, etc you don't want to try to cut their fuel costs?
As to taxes I disagree. I pay enough in taxes now. My company pays enough in taxes now. I am sick and tired of watching the government waste MY money. The more they tax the more people don't work for me, the less I invest in new projects because the risk/reward scenario gets bleaker, the more people don't work. Great economic scenario there.
Reagan ended the greatest threat this country has ever faced and you call him a do nothing President??? Steals any credibility from the rest of your argument to make a statement like that.
This country has had a massive debt for decades through Repub & Demo. administrations. The tax cuts spurred the huge economic boom that we have gone through and that probably enabled many of us to buy our Hummers. If you understand economic history, economics and cause and effect you understand the impact of tax decreases on the economy. If you don't, vote for Barack and he will take care of your discretionary income for you.
You say McCain will "spend like the devil" but apparently think Obama is going to pay for universal health care, SS for all, etc with what????? good wishes and platitudes? BO is going to sweet talk all of our problems away. Hey sounds like typical political BS. I don't agree with McCain on a number of issues but I disagree with BO on a whole lot more. Give Pelosi, Murtha, Schumer and Kennedy a lib in the White House and we are all screwed.

 

It doesn't take a whole lot of political knowledge right now to figure out no matter what happens at the end of the elections... we are all screwed. It will take at least 4 years (Maybe even longer, if ever) to gain back what Americans have lots in the last year.

And from what I have read, refineries are no where near 100% production of gas. Last year it was stated that (one of them can't recall but went something like) "We are making more profit producing less fuel then when making more".

 

My friends in the oil and gas business tell me the refineries are running at capacity except for down time for repairs and maint.

 

I agree with youbrother! I'm no big fan of McCain but voting for anything else will lead to the destruction of our constitution. ajone3, you stated that we are all well off. Well, news for you, I'm not well off!! I pay enough in taxes! I'm self employed and pay my FICA in double! I pay for my familys health insurnace and every other so called benefit that others take for granted. I get taxed on my income, my investments and just about everything else that I pay for day to day. I pay my part and shouldnt have to pay anymore, especially for peoplethat pay nothing and get everything! GM will survive and so will I. Our dollars may not go as far but we will get through.

 

ORIGINAL: 3hummers

The job of the government is not to solve our problems, it is to get out of our way.

I didn't say that was their job, in contrast I said their job is to 'help'. The government should encourage solutions to state's problems and introducing new ideas on how we solve our problems. Obviously we disagree on other things such as healthcare, and that's okay, but the solution is not found on the path we've been headed on for the past 20+ years.

Not sure where you get your facts and figures on oil production, supply, benefit but your statistics are incorrect and the 10 year deal, well if Clinton had not put ANWR off limits 11 years ago ANWR oil would be available today.

My 'stats' are industry experts telling it like it is, not listening to a White House Press Briefing.
One of the thousand articles on this subject: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...46114820080625

I agree that we should not waste time on working on alternative forms of energy but to break this country in the process is ridiculous.

By drilling off of our coastlines more than we currently do we're not going to alleviate this problem, so we're not 'breaking this country'.

don't want to try to cut their fuel costs?

Yes, but I'm realistic and listen to industry experts, not the White House.

As to taxes I disagree. I pay enough in taxes now. My company pays enough in taxes now. I am sick and tired of watching the government waste MY money.

I agree, but you cannot increase spending dramatically, i.e. for a WAR, and decrease revenue. Supply-side 'Reagan-omics' has not worked because people have failed to invest in AMERICAN ventures in favor of foreign industry where profit margins are higher due to development. If the tax incentive is to send work overseas and invest overseas, the wealthy will do just that and this will lead to a larger divide between the rich and the poor. Lower pay in the working and middle-class will lead to lower revenues in industry and commerce in the long run. The wealthy cannot drive the economy, only the working middle-class have the consumer volume needed to drive America and if they have no money, America's economy fails.

Reagan ended the greatest threat this country has ever faced and you call him a do nothing President???

History lesson, Reagan didn't end the Cold War, the congress did as they allowed the funding for efforts in Afghanistan and the USSR was run people who had the bloodthirst for power only rivaled by Hitler. This ultimately is what led to their demise, which just happened to fall on Reagan's Presidency. While I will concede that he was good at working with the Democratic Congress and that partisanship did not completely rule D.C. while he was in office, most of what occurred in his administration was due to inertia from the two previous administrations and from Congressional Leadership.

This country has had a massive debt for decades through Repub & Demo. administrations. The tax cuts spurred the huge economic boom that we have gone through and that probably enabled many of us to buy our Hummers. If you understand economic history, economics and cause and effect you understand the impact of tax decreases on the economy.

In an ideal situation this would work, but as I explained above it has not. As my friend and economic professor Erwin would say, Reagan-omics is the theory that the rich will want to share their wealth with the poor instead of finding ways to exploit the poor to become even more wealthy. It doesn't work and we're starting to see more of the long-term effects.

You say McCain will "spend like the devil" but apparently think Obama is going to pay for universal health care, SS for all, etc with what????? good wishes and platitudes? BO is going to sweet talk all of our problems away. Hey sounds like typical political BS. I don't agree with McCain on a number of issues but I disagree with BO on a whole lot more. Give Pelosi, Murtha, Schumer and Kennedy a lib in the White House and we are all screwed.

They both will, but it boils down to what you want to invest in. Do you want to wait ten years and spend like the devil on offshore drilling or do you want to invest in an energy future. Do you want the government to allow Americans who are uninsured to buy into bulk plans at massive discounts or do you want a President who plans to take away the tax incentive for employers to provide employee health care? It's a mindset that America has to move toward in order to succeed in the future. I'm a very well-educated man and have debated my own points with many who don't agree with me. We don't always have to agree, but we do have to agree that we base our arguments upon fact, history, and current events which can help us better understand the effects of our previous ideas.

 

I understand that we're not all well-off, as I was making a general statement that would apply to MOST people who could afford a Hummer. BTW, Barack Obama has actually proposed to lower taxes on middle-class families who work and increase them on people in the 250K+ income bracket. You won't be affected if you're not in this bracket. I, on the other hand, support the 'fair tax' proposal, which is based upon spending, not upon income.

Again, I know we don't all agree, but we can act like adults and debate, not try and sling mud (unless you're behind the wheel of your Hummer).

 

To make a comment back on the topic, there is a thread in the H3 section asking people what they would think of GM absorbing Hummer vehicles into another brand, such a Chevrolet or GMC which begs the question:

Would you rather see the Hummer brand absorbed, sold, or discontinued. I'd rather it not be sold to a foreign company but if anyone has any thoughts on this please comment!