Premium Gasoline?
#11
09-20-2007 | 11:08 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 94
From:
RE: Premium Gasoline?
FWIW- Iusually go for the premium.
Here's my logic- When you look at the $diff between mid and premium grades to fill up a gargantuan tank, it's a fairly minimal diff. What's a few bucks more?
A higher octane level is not going to damage an engine, so what the heck. Whether it has any real benefits is debatable, but my feeling is that (especially in the long term) everything you can do to treat your engine well will come back to thank you. Better gas, better oil, better filters, etc. And I steer clear of the "Handy Mart" stations as well. Their gas is cheaper for a reason, and while I may not know exactly what that reason is, I'm just as happy going somewhere else and spending a few extra bucks.
There is a site that I used to have a link to that listed the best quality gas companies, but I can't locate it. A quick Google search would prob bring up several sites with the same info.I usually just stick to the BP/Amoco premium or the Shell V-Power.
Here's my logic- When you look at the $diff between mid and premium grades to fill up a gargantuan tank, it's a fairly minimal diff. What's a few bucks more?
A higher octane level is not going to damage an engine, so what the heck. Whether it has any real benefits is debatable, but my feeling is that (especially in the long term) everything you can do to treat your engine well will come back to thank you. Better gas, better oil, better filters, etc. And I steer clear of the "Handy Mart" stations as well. Their gas is cheaper for a reason, and while I may not know exactly what that reason is, I'm just as happy going somewhere else and spending a few extra bucks.
There is a site that I used to have a link to that listed the best quality gas companies, but I can't locate it. A quick Google search would prob bring up several sites with the same info.I usually just stick to the BP/Amoco premium or the Shell V-Power.
#12
09-20-2007 | 11:13 AM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
From: Central Ohio
RE: Premium Gasoline?
It's about $6 difference every time you fill up. With the MPG average for the H# that amounts to a lot.. Of course it your call what you use but your logic is flawed as you get no gains but your wallet will be lighter.
#13
09-20-2007 | 11:15 AM
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 12,491
From: Boat Town USA MI
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I'm no oil/gas guru man, but I agree with everybody 
....................Uh.............sorta...? With a PCM or ECM controled engine, like in a 3, your computer can determine that your fuel octane will allow for more rapid timing advance curves, and adjust fuel ratio accordingly, but only to a preprogrammed parameter. I am not insinuating that your engine will be ready for drag racing as soon as you pull out of the gas station with a fresh tank of 93, after you fed your machine a steady diet of 87.
What I mean is, if you consistently use one grade of fuel your PCM will learn to use THAT fuel in the most efficient manner it can. If you switch to a higher grade, I do not believe that your PCM can learn the difference until at least the end of that full tank, probably another tank, to again useTHAT fuel octane most efficiently. On everything I have ever used different fuels in: Boats, snowmobiles, motorcyles, and cars, I can consistently get better fuel economy with a higher octane fuel (pump gas range of 87 to 94).
In an offshore with triple GM 502s, I can tell you this difference is huge. In an H3, fuel economy is better, but the real question is: does the increase in fuel mileage outweigh the additional cost of the higher octane fuel??? I think it would be close, but probably not, at least not consistently. I also do not think 93 octane is going to produce more HP than 89, might not even really beat 87. The increase in power is probably nominal: let's guess and say 1-3HP, at the end of a tank or two. You can free up more ponies with synthetic over petroleum????
I will say that everytime I go wheelin or for a road trip I fill up with premium, otherwise, it's 87 my 3. Premium does keep my exhaust tips cleaner????
Why, IDK.
....................Uh.............sorta...? With a PCM or ECM controled engine, like in a 3, your computer can determine that your fuel octane will allow for more rapid timing advance curves, and adjust fuel ratio accordingly, but only to a preprogrammed parameter. I am not insinuating that your engine will be ready for drag racing as soon as you pull out of the gas station with a fresh tank of 93, after you fed your machine a steady diet of 87.What I mean is, if you consistently use one grade of fuel your PCM will learn to use THAT fuel in the most efficient manner it can. If you switch to a higher grade, I do not believe that your PCM can learn the difference until at least the end of that full tank, probably another tank, to again useTHAT fuel octane most efficiently. On everything I have ever used different fuels in: Boats, snowmobiles, motorcyles, and cars, I can consistently get better fuel economy with a higher octane fuel (pump gas range of 87 to 94).
In an offshore with triple GM 502s, I can tell you this difference is huge. In an H3, fuel economy is better, but the real question is: does the increase in fuel mileage outweigh the additional cost of the higher octane fuel??? I think it would be close, but probably not, at least not consistently. I also do not think 93 octane is going to produce more HP than 89, might not even really beat 87. The increase in power is probably nominal: let's guess and say 1-3HP, at the end of a tank or two. You can free up more ponies with synthetic over petroleum????
I will say that everytime I go wheelin or for a road trip I fill up with premium, otherwise, it's 87 my 3. Premium does keep my exhaust tips cleaner????
Why, IDK.
#14
09-20-2007 | 11:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 24
From:
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I don't believe for a second that higher octane does not affect the cars performance. Sure, that's what the TV reporters says (that you are supposedly wasting money on premium gas, that low or mid-grade is just fine for all non-high performance vehicles). Just from previous experience, I've had a very nice Audi S4, which was very well maintained and taken care of, and had about 10K miles on it by then, thus in top performance shape. As I drove from California to Midwest, the octane up until about Missouri is actually 91 (92 if you can get Sunoco). Only in Missouri or so, the premium octane switches to 93 octane (94 at Sunoco), like it is on the East Coast. Well, the additional 2 octane did make a very noticeable difference -- the car was definitely reacting, accelerating better - that's despite the fact that it already had a very good acceleration, and that despite the twin-turbo's, it always had a small but predictable lag. Also, the ECU did not yet had time to adjust itself to higher octane and potentially slightly different driving style. Yet, the fact remains, just a simple switch from 91 to 93 octane made a very noticeable and immediate difference to a driver, who was very sceptical about all this and at the time believed those reports that octane doesn't matter. By the way, the car's manual said to put at least 91 octane in US, or 95 if in Canada (or Europe for that matter, where most such premium cars use 95 octane, whilst sports cars use 98 octane, which is also widely available to all gas filling stations).
An acquaitance of mine, who is a big car buff (has one rebuilt muscle car with about 700 HP) and a co-owner of a premium car/limo rental service, always told me that he periodically mixes higher octane into all his cars even if they say 87, just to "clean the pipes".
So the bottom line is, octane does matter, at least in my experience.
And like someone else said, Shell gas is indeed very good. I've been using it in 90% of the cases for the past 8 years, and it does seem to me that their marketing campaign is truthful, and their gas if not superior, then at the very least very good and trouble-free. But then all depends on the gas station owners - if you are somewhere in NYC area, you might get some naphtalin added into the mix, as those guys don't give a damn about what EPA or municipal authorities mandate.
An acquaitance of mine, who is a big car buff (has one rebuilt muscle car with about 700 HP) and a co-owner of a premium car/limo rental service, always told me that he periodically mixes higher octane into all his cars even if they say 87, just to "clean the pipes".
So the bottom line is, octane does matter, at least in my experience.
And like someone else said, Shell gas is indeed very good. I've been using it in 90% of the cases for the past 8 years, and it does seem to me that their marketing campaign is truthful, and their gas if not superior, then at the very least very good and trouble-free. But then all depends on the gas station owners - if you are somewhere in NYC area, you might get some naphtalin added into the mix, as those guys don't give a damn about what EPA or municipal authorities mandate.
#15
09-20-2007 | 11:37 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 455
RE: Premium Gasoline?
ORIGINAL: audil
I don't believe for a second that higher octane does not affect the cars performance. Sure, that's what the TV reporters says (that you are supposedly wasting money on premium gas, that low or mid-grade is just fine for all non-high performance vehicles). Just from previous experience, I've had a very nice Audi S4, which was very well maintained and taken care of, and had about 10K miles on it by then, thus in top performance shape. As I drove from California to Midwest, the octane up until about Missouri is actually 91 (92 if you can get Sunoco). Only in Missouri or so, the premium octane switches to 93 octane (94 at Sunoco), like it is on the East Coast. Well, the additional 2 octane did make a very noticeable difference -- the car was definitely reacting, accelerating better - that's despite the fact that it already had a very good acceleration, and that despite the twin-turbo's, it always had a small but predictable lag. Also, the ECU did not yet had time to adjust itself to higher octane and potentially slightly different driving style. Yet, the fact remains, just a simple switch from 91 to 93 octane made a very noticeable and immediate difference to a driver, who was very sceptical about all this and at the time believed those reports that octane doesn't matter. By the way, the car's manual said to put at least 91 octane in US, or 95 if in Canada (or Europe for that matter, where most such premium cars use 95 octane, whilst sports cars use 98 octane, which is also widely available to all gas filling stations).
An acquaitance of mine, who is a big car buff (has one rebuilt muscle car with about 700 HP) and a co-owner of a premium car/limo rental service, always told me that he periodically mixes higher octane into all his cars even if they say 87, just to "clean the pipes".
So the bottom line is, octane does matter, at least in my experience.
And like someone else said, Shell gas is indeed very good. I've been using it in 90% of the cases for the past 8 years, and it does seem to me that their marketing campaign is truthful, and their gas if not superior, then at the very least very good and trouble-free. But then all depends on the gas station owners - if you are somewhere in NYC area, you might get some naphtalin added into the mix, as those guys don't give a damn about what EPA or municipal authorities mandate.
I don't believe for a second that higher octane does not affect the cars performance. Sure, that's what the TV reporters says (that you are supposedly wasting money on premium gas, that low or mid-grade is just fine for all non-high performance vehicles). Just from previous experience, I've had a very nice Audi S4, which was very well maintained and taken care of, and had about 10K miles on it by then, thus in top performance shape. As I drove from California to Midwest, the octane up until about Missouri is actually 91 (92 if you can get Sunoco). Only in Missouri or so, the premium octane switches to 93 octane (94 at Sunoco), like it is on the East Coast. Well, the additional 2 octane did make a very noticeable difference -- the car was definitely reacting, accelerating better - that's despite the fact that it already had a very good acceleration, and that despite the twin-turbo's, it always had a small but predictable lag. Also, the ECU did not yet had time to adjust itself to higher octane and potentially slightly different driving style. Yet, the fact remains, just a simple switch from 91 to 93 octane made a very noticeable and immediate difference to a driver, who was very sceptical about all this and at the time believed those reports that octane doesn't matter. By the way, the car's manual said to put at least 91 octane in US, or 95 if in Canada (or Europe for that matter, where most such premium cars use 95 octane, whilst sports cars use 98 octane, which is also widely available to all gas filling stations).
An acquaitance of mine, who is a big car buff (has one rebuilt muscle car with about 700 HP) and a co-owner of a premium car/limo rental service, always told me that he periodically mixes higher octane into all his cars even if they say 87, just to "clean the pipes".
So the bottom line is, octane does matter, at least in my experience.
And like someone else said, Shell gas is indeed very good. I've been using it in 90% of the cases for the past 8 years, and it does seem to me that their marketing campaign is truthful, and their gas if not superior, then at the very least very good and trouble-free. But then all depends on the gas station owners - if you are somewhere in NYC area, you might get some naphtalin added into the mix, as those guys don't give a damn about what EPA or municipal authorities mandate.
To compare a race car to a suv's octane intake is quite irrelevant as a race car runs at a much higher compression than your run of the mill SUV. I think this is the greatest misconception, as people see guys in high performance or exotic cars use 93... so it's automatically assumed that it's a better gas. Well, high performance and exotics have very high compression, in fact, some cars wont even run on anything less than 93.
As for gas stations, I can't really agree on a brand being better than all the other brands, however, I do believe that it's heavily dependant upon the station age and the owners. New stations will have a lot of crap still in their tanks, so you get objects you dont want in your fuel. Old gas stations have a deposit of debris in the bottom of their tanks, so when a truck dumps a new load... it can stir them up causing problems for motorists. Some BP or Shell stations may be dumped on old tanks or old pumps, everything has it's variables. I would say it's really dependant on the station itself (obviously if it's a clean station, pumps are in great shape and maintained, it would be safe to assume that they would take a little more care with their gas and maintain their
#16
09-20-2007 | 11:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 24
From:
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Your S4, didn't it require 89 or above?
#17
09-20-2007 | 11:56 AM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
From: Central Ohio
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Learn more here on Premium vs Low octane fuels:
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/...s_premium.html
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/...s_premium.html
#18
09-20-2007 | 12:22 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 455
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Or here
http://autorepair.about.com/od/engin...hoctanegas.htm
or here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
or
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/od/engin...hoctanegas.htm
or here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
or
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm
#19
09-20-2007 | 12:39 PM
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 12,491
From: Boat Town USA MI
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Audil: I'm not knocking (ooh that could be a pun ) your observations, but they are based upon a twin turbo go cart controlled by a differentECM than an H3. I have run 93 in my 3 and my butt dyno can't tell the difference. I've used octane boost fuel treatment in past rides, much lighter and performance oriented, and I could feel some power band difference. So by no means are you wrong, just comparing apples to avacados.
) your observations, but they are based upon a twin turbo go cart controlled by a differentECM than an H3. I have run 93 in my 3 and my butt dyno can't tell the difference. I've used octane boost fuel treatment in past rides, much lighter and performance oriented, and I could feel some power band difference. So by no means are you wrong, just comparing apples to avacados.
#20
09-20-2007 | 01:34 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 94
From:
RE: Premium Gasoline?
No offense Vader, but you're getting raped where you buy gas.
The avg diff between grades here in VBis .10/gal. (and has been since '96, when I movedhere)
I'm putting in 20 gal a fill-up avg (of course it's a few more if you wait until bone-dry status), which only amounts to a $2 diff between grades. So, that would be a $4 diff per fill-up between reg and premium.
I, personally, have never put reg in any of my vehicles, so it's only a matter of $2 diff per fill-up for me. I fill it a couple/few times a month. So, let's say that's a $6 diff per month, $72annually. An extra $72/year for better gas is nothing. Even if it doesn't make any substantial difference, at least I know it's not crap I'm putting in the tank.
It's hardly a flawed system if it works for me.
To each their own. It's really just a matter of what one is comfortable with.
The avg diff between grades here in VBis .10/gal. (and has been since '96, when I movedhere)
I'm putting in 20 gal a fill-up avg (of course it's a few more if you wait until bone-dry status), which only amounts to a $2 diff between grades. So, that would be a $4 diff per fill-up between reg and premium.
I, personally, have never put reg in any of my vehicles, so it's only a matter of $2 diff per fill-up for me. I fill it a couple/few times a month. So, let's say that's a $6 diff per month, $72annually. An extra $72/year for better gas is nothing. Even if it doesn't make any substantial difference, at least I know it's not crap I'm putting in the tank.
It's hardly a flawed system if it works for me.
To each their own. It's really just a matter of what one is comfortable with.