From that aspect I agree with Bob ... that is an official uniform ... and should remain that way! What they decide to wear off hours and what not, that's none of our business however ... And considering how many Indian and Pakistani docs we have, as well as surgeons .. I've NEVER heard of one wearing a turban in the OR instead of those .. well, whatever those things are called they wear LOL! Nor have I EVER been treated by a turban wearing Indian doc. The ones I've had (3-4 of them) have always worn the traditional white coat, and that's it.
The slack has been taken too far and we (well you) are now compromising our own damn traiditions for the sakes of being politically correct. Hell, I should b*tch up a storm here at work about my own heritage so I get all my Swedish holidays off too ... [:@][:@][:@][:@] I guess I can claim THAT is my religious right as aSwede... *duh*

 

Canadian Beer = Sex in a canoe ... F*cking close to water .. but then again, so are most American beers in comparison to like good ol' fashioned German beer .. them folks can make a brew! Granted, with that said I guess Sam Adams is the American exception in my opinion ... and I do like me a Moosehead everyonce in a while .. the rest to me is nothing but a bottle of Evian someone took a pizz in LOL!

 

Sorry the way I responded, it was ignorant and disrespectful.
LHB you hit the nail right on the head with how I feel.

 

Don't worry about it Choco..I think you are a very polite and pleasant fellow..I'm glad we can have our discussions and still be able to remain gentlemen...

Thanks for your contributions

 

At this rate .. in about 10,000 years we can probably be considered "civilized" LOL!

 

Well, Bob and Nick while I totally agree with you regarding the duties related to one's decision to immigrate to a foreign country you have also to consider that the religious aspects are not always very clearly laid down to the immigrants has they Should be.

The guy who pisses up so much Bobby is a SIKH and for him wearing a turban is a major religious obligation.

'
โ€ฆเจธเจพเจฌเจค เจธเฉ‚เจฐเจคเจฟ เจฆเจธเจคเจพเจฐ เจธเจฟเจฐเจพเฅฅ "โ€ฆcomplete form is with turban donned." (SGGSJ Ang 1084)
เจœเฉ‹ เจชเจ— เจจเฉ‚เฉฐ เจฌเจพเจธเฉ€ เจฐเจ–เฉ‡ เจธเฉ‹ เจคเจจเจ–เจพเจนเฉ€เจ†เฅค เจ‡เจธ เจฒเจˆ เจนเจฐ เจ—เฉเจฐเฉ‚ เจ•เฉ‡ เจธเจฟเฉฑเจ– เจฒเจˆ เจฒเจพเจœเจผเจฎเฉ€ เจนเฉˆ เจ•เจฟ เจ‰เจน เจฐเฉ‹เจœเจผ เจฆเจธเจคเจพเจฐ เจธเจœเจพเจตเฉ‡เฅค "One who does not tie a fresh turban is liable for penalty. For this reason it is mandatory for every Sikh of the Guru to tie a turban everyday." (Rehitnama Bhai Chaupa Singh jee) A Sikh never cuts or trims any hair (Kesh), to indicate the perfection of God's creation. The comb keeps the hair tidy, a symbol of not just accepting what God has given, but also an injunction to maintain it with grace. The Guru said hair should be allowed to grow naturally. For men, this includes not shaving. At the time of Guru Gobind Singh, some holy men let their hair become tangled and dirty. The Guru said that this was not right. Hair should be allowed to grow but it should be kept clean and combed at least twice a day. A Dastaar is turban worn to protect the Kesh (unshorn hair) and guard the Dasam Duaar (the Tenth Gate), a spiritual opening at the top of the head. The turban is a spiritual crown, which is a constant reminder to the Sikh that he or she is sitting on the throne of consciousness and is committed to living according to Sikh principles. It is the identity of a Sikh. Guru Gobind Singh jee told His Sikhs: โ€œKhaalsa mero roop hai kaas. Khaalsa mai ho karo nivaas... The Khalsa is my image. Within the Khalsa I reside.โ€Wearing a turban declares sovereignty, dedication, self-respect, courage and piety.'

Since an immigrant has duties the receiving country has also the obligation to explain him clearly and before he arrives what are the religious rules prevailing.
We hadthe same type of problem a few years ago with immigrants arriving from former french colonies in North Africa.
Being Muslims, the women where obliged by their faith to wear the 'chador'.
So, the little girls as well as the adult women were going to school or to their workplaces wearing it.
This ended creating a major uproar within the mostly catholic french people and in a country where the Republican law was totally void on this specific aspect .
The french Parliament ended up voting a LAW that say that it was ILLEGAL to show any sign of religious believes in school or at work.

Bad idea!! that law.a cross is a religious sign for a catholic, a kippa is a religious sign for a jew.....
Now we have thousand of court cases going on all over the country all related to that law.

Me personally I am not sure about what to think about it.Right, an immigrant has to fully integrate and accept the law of his/her new country.Otherwise he goes back from where he comes from.But then what about the religion?I tend to believe that the only answer must be tolerance from both side but then again when you mix cultures that are 2000% different where the tolerance end and the racism starts?
Its an unanswered question, at least for me. And to tell you the truth I am afraid to find the answer.

 

I remember that whole mess JM .. and while I agree with a certain level of understanding for other religions when we are dealing with official positions we are not dealing with individuals, we are dealing with a concept and with an image. In my opinion that SHOULD be upheld and if someone has a problem with it or will not conform, then they should be handled accordingly. It's no different than in a catholic school with a uniform requirement .. if you refuse, you simply go to school somewhere else and you wear your jeans and t-shirt if that's what you want.
I think we have become TOO tolerant and setting OUR traditions to the sides for the sakes of political correctness. While the cause can be considered noble, now WE have to compromise OUR way of living for the sakes of someone else that simply will not integrate with their new country.
There are some aspects of living here in the States I don't agree with. I have a couple of Swedish holidays that mean a lot to me I can't celebrate properly because I am expected to work. Maybe a far fetched example but the message here is ... SUCK IT UP AND DEAL! You can't expect a country to change for you, you change for the country.

While that law definitely did the trick in France, I don't think it was thought through in a fashion to where it was applied properly. Personally I think it's something that should be handled by the employeer rather than from a federal or government aspect. If you work as a Sheriff you don't weara turban, you wear the attire tradition has established, the same thing with the Mounties up north. I mean seriously, am I THE only one having a problem seeing a Buckingham Palace guard in a turban here? Where do we draw the line to conserve our traditions??

I don't think there is a clear cut answer other than if you have no intentions of conforming to the attired the job requires, you should not be hired for that job. This of course will generate the usual hoopla about discrimination and such .. well, ya know what ... tough! If you can not comform to the job requirements you get fired, I know I would here. It's not discrimination, that's upholding YOUR end of the contract you signed .. whether that entails not calling your boss an "ignorant donkey" or wearing a beach towel on your head, I really don't care! Religiousbelief or not ... it's not an excuse! Pick a different profession!

 

Definitely a tricky subject, so here's my .02. I believe in religious freedom, but when it all come down to it, religion is a choice. As a choice, you should not be able to impose your view, feeling, or practices on others, whether they be individuals, or countries. By following a certain path, ie a particular religion, you are consciously making a decision to possibly "differentiate" yourself from others, so you can't cry "foul" when your own choice prevents you from doing something others are permitted to. It's simply a question of one persons rights trampling another. This does not restrict your ability to question the lack of acceptance, but does not guarantee that theyMUST accept your practices.

No country is perfect, and peoples attitudes and practices change over time. Dogma on both sides tends to cloud issues and cause rifts, but the simple fact is that we are all "evolving" on some level. It was not long ago that women could not vote, or colored people were looked at differently, so who's to say how we will view aspects of religious freedom in the years to come. Sometime change hurts. "Discrimination" is viewed as a bad word these days, and in some cases it is, but discrimination is nothing more than making a choice. Societies that allow open discussion and debate will eventually come to a balance, but that balance won;t make everybody at the time happy. The way they dealt with things in France was probably overreacting to a problems that should have been dealt with earlier, so lack of action then has resulted in more pain now.

In reference to Hummbob, personally I don't like how the whole Turban issue went down, and I didn't agree with the outcome either, but in hindsight, I can't say that I am personally slighted by allowing them to wear their headgear either, and have no doubts that individuals who wear them still have the same compassion, professionalism, and dedication I have come to see in RCMP officers.

So, in a nutshell, I don't we should all bend to demands of others, but if we keep an open mind and active dialog, perhaps we can move forward to reach compromises that are in the best interest for all, despite possibly contradicting our own views. Sometimes we need to change.

 

Here in the States, there is/was an issue with the Women of Islam and their Driver's Lic...They refused to take off their berka's in order for them to be Photo ID'd for the Lic...Is that right or wrong?

 

That one should be easy Den ... no face, no license. It's an identification document, you need to be identifiable! If I was the clerk at the BMV I would have refused to issue the license and turned them away. I have zero moral problems with that one!