Here is an article for reference:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

I don't care if people want to talk about this or not, someone should. It affects the entire U.S. economy in direct and indirect things.

I'm sorry, but after doing some research and finding out how much overhead GM has to put into their carsbecause of whoever's mismanagement is to blame,it bothers me alot. From what I have read and heard on the radio the past few days, GM (and am not sure who else) charges between $1500 and $2000 per vehicle EXTRA just to pay for health care and benefits for retired auto workers.

I'm know people might call me a dik or whatever other name for saying this, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to buy a car and spend $1500 to $2000 of my hard-earned money paying for somebody else's medical and retirement benefits whom didn't even build my car, when I can take that money and put it into my OWN 401K plan for my retirement. I am all for supporting seniors and respecting what people have done for us, i.e. our elders, etc., but at the same time, times are tough and the more research and educated I become about the way auto makers work, and the differences between import manufacturing costs and processes vs. domestic, it's apparent that American cars cost so damn much because of all of this overhead.

I'm not blaming GM, or the UAW, but what I'm saying is, whomever is to blame here, this has to be fixed, or more people will be buying the cheaper, more feature-packed imports and less people will buy American. The problem is everybody wants a piece, and people get more greedy every year. GM needs to figure out a way to pay for their workers benefits by perhaps dipping into their own profits (if any these days) and not adding on $1500 to the price of a car because WE, the customers, are supposed to be responsible for GM's lack of accounting and managing skills with their own money.

People can point fingers all the time, saying it's GM's fault, it's the UAW's fault, well ya know what, whatever. Stop bitching and do something about it.

Here's a simple formula for all of those math wiz's at GM:

Cheaper cars = more sales = more profit = more money for workers benefits = less labor problems = happy workers

Wow. I know how hard that is to understand.

And don't go turning this into "Imports are better then Domestic" and all that crap. That's now what the issue is here. Read and learn. It's mostly about medical benefits and pensions for retirees of GM, and who is responsible to pay for it.

Well, ya know what GM, they were YOUR workers, and YOU are responsible for the money that was promised to them when they worked for YOU. It's not the UAW's responsibility, it's yours. If you can't take care of your workers and want to bullsh1t them and turn your back on them once you retire, guess what, you have no business being IN this business.

That's my opinion. Dip into your pockets and fix the issues. I'm sure you have the funds to. Either that, or you will go down faster then the Titanic. It only takes a few minutes on the stock market for you to crumble like a stail cracker. Think about it.

 

i totally agree with you, thanks for the heads up.... i'll pass this info on thru email..

 

I am so sick of the Unions, they used to be good, but thier time has come to go. They drain the companies, they plauge the economy each time they strike or protest. Thanks to them, our cars are being made increasingly overseas.

Why pay a union worker 64 dollarsan hour (including benifits) when you can get a worker in China to do the same job (not to mention much faster) for $2,500 a year? Seriously, with numbers like that, it's no wonder why American companies would rather ship in the cars.

This strike is right now DESTROYING the Michigan economy (if it wasn't already), our company is sitting idle here losing millions a minute thanks to the Union workers... and we are not even GM [:@] We are a large supplier to them so when their factories stop working, we stop working. My father in laws company (alogistics company) had to lay off all their truckers... because when GM's factories aren't churning, they are sitting.... meaning hundreds upon hundreds of truckers without jobs this week.... thanks a lot.


Hell, and negotiations aren't even completed. It comes as no surprise to me as GM will seek the same type of plan as my company offered the union and the Union is scared that this is their final blow... which I hope it is.

Death to the Union. I am happy for what they have done in the past, don't get me wrong, but I am sick of their bullying tactics that's only hurting the workers and the economy... obviously the fat cats up top are still being paid.


So now you guys know where I sit with this topic

 

Correct. There are other "added" fees which are union fees stapled to the cars prices. A huge portion of GM cars prices are just "perks" for unions... not to mention by slow production.

GM currently loses about $1,200 per car produced whereas Toyota gains $2,500 per car produced. GM has to pass on the $2,500 debt to the buyer to cover costs otherwise it would be far in the hole. This is already a 3,200 dollar disadvantage per unit verses Toyota.

Which is a huge reason why GM is moving production overseas and their suppliers tied into union contracts have already filed for bankruptcy to avoid hitting the bottom of the pit to get out of the union contracts.

Problem is that it can't be fixed. The only way to fix it is to reduce labour costs and benifits, which have done nothing but skyrocket. Do you know a union worker who works as a janitor gets $25 an hour and more benifits than a company employee non-union? A factory worker recieves 64 an hour which includes benifits.... a pay that many corporate employees do not even see.

With contracts like these and lower car volume of sale due to increase competition, we have to shave off the contracts or salary.

This is an employ at will company, they have the right to fire you, but not under union agreements. GM can't just say, "hey guys, we are short on cash, we have to let a few of you go", not under the union contracts. They can't fire you even if you threaten your supervisor, they can't fire you or let you go no matter what short of an actual shooting, in which case you go to jail. We have a plant employee protected by the union, actually have several who have comitted rape, one killed a police officer but they didn't have enough evidence, and not to mention so many shooting threats and physical acts towards other employees and supervisors

GM is in handcuffs, no matte which way you cut it, we all know thier sales aren't that hot anymore, and their overhead keeps increasing.

GM can't do this. They have no other way o

 

Guys, since I was at the GM Tech Center this am, and in and around a couple plants (kinda empty [:@])before hot footing it back to my office, you do not want to get me going on this. When I am beetchin and raggin on Jap Crap, this is the root of it all. It is plain and simple, we cannot continue to compete on uneven ground. I have industry data that puts the "extra profit" of the big Japanese companies at $1700.00 ++USD more per unit than an american built same in class. This goes to Japanes shareholders (tokyo) not to pay the guy in Tennesse to assemble Toyotas.

Why?No trade tarriffs, no union scale wages, an entirely different health and benefit system, and people who are happy and willing to work hard for their company. N. American workers are the best in the world, but a factory rat cannot get paid a wage scale to have the american dream in the current global market! I got no qualms with a fella that works hard for a good wage and wants to put the kids through college. Union firing protection just does not work for the guys/gals sleeping in the head, not making production, and given the cakest of all jobs because of a outdated seniority system who simply do notassign value (pride) to the incredible job they have. If corporate could weed out the bad apple workers and we to could export cars on an even playing field, we would have a chance to turn things around. Do you have any idea what tax and import tarriffs do to the price of an american car in Japan?????

Remember, the goal of every corproation is to make a profit for its shareholders, it is not to pay workers more than they are worth in an open market, guarantee lazy people a job, and save its customers money.

So buy your jap crap, I'll be sending down homeless former factory workers from Detroit to stay at your house because you are contributing to the undermining of or industrial economy.

 

this whole world is screwed up ....................everyone is so greedy for money and it is because a person has no choice .................swim with the sharks or drown. Everyone is in a big race to be the richest and most powerfull which drives the economy to keep going higher and higher and if the average person just does the same thing for the same wage for their whole working career they will fall so behind that they will not be able to afford to survive. if people do not wake up and get motivated they will be in a world of hurt in the future, and then the onus will be on our kids to bail out those people with no *****.

 

Well, I try to judge everything fairly, but I'm not on the inside so I don't know all the details. To me, if GM keeps promising all of these things to the union workers because the union keeps bullying them around, the whole industry will go under here, and greed is going to put everybody out of a job. That's sad considering the auto industry and mass production were invented in the U.S., and now we can't even keep it here without bickering. I think this greediness is fed by GM who keeps giving in. I understand COMPLETELY that if they don't things will suffer, but you have to wonder, if GM execs are sitting there thinking, you know what, F this, we're going to move everything to other countries and scrap our U.S. plants all together.

Then what will the union do when there is no jobs left? They won't be around anymore. I just wish GM would hang in there and stop giving in. I'm sure there are MORE then enough car inventories in this country to sustain them for a month or two. It seems to me some good contigency plans would stop the bullying, but again as I said, if GM is going to keep giving in and making promises, they need to figure out a way to keep them and stop pissing everything off.

I may sound like a hypocrit, but it's kinda hard to figure out who I agree with. I think it's 50/50, and the more you guys tell me about what's really going on, the more I scratch my head and say to myself "this is really silly" because they are putting themselves at risk of loosing the whole industry and being left with nothing.

I'm glad you guys are responding because I like hearing about the other "stuff" I don't hear about. It just looks like it's never going to end until GM moves more production to these other countries and completely gets out of the U.S. Is that basically what this is coming down to like you say? It sure looks like that's eventually what is going to happen.

I bet when GM starts cutting massive jobs and starting layoffs and closing plants, that's when the Union is going to wake up and realize it's too late to play nice, and you destroyed an entire industry because of your greed.

That's what I'm getting out of all of this.

 

Wonder if they need any scabs....

 

I never agreed with unions becauseas long as an emplyertreatstheir employees with respect and dignity they will usually give you respect in return. Most of my emplyees are of spanish decent and they dont join unions and actually work hard for their money that they actually deserve. One thing GM has to learn is to not be so generous because no offense to anyone but I have a lot of friends that maintain themselves very well without $60k a year and all people want to do isdo the least possible to earn money and get a living that takes absolutely no work and is just having a big house,nice car, and every other luxury there comes with being rich.

 

HMMMM I am with the rest of you that Unions really need to go and they are killing the economy. I am young and do not completely know the inns and outs of Union Workforce in today's economy. But overall it sounds like a bunch of democrats who think that everything should just be handed to them.

I know Toyota and Honda have quiet a few plants in the US. And I know Doc Olds calls them "Jap Crap" but the reality is the "Jap Crap" companies are kicking our "American Engineuity" (sp?) Asses. They are building great automobilesand doing it with a great profit!!!!

Keep in mind I am all for "Buy American" and its really pisses me off when I buy chit that says "Made in China" But the reality is our nation is becoming a non-manufacturing nation. We cannot compete with China and Japan--Maybe due to Unions??? Bottom line only those in the Service related industy will survive.

I will continue to by American when it makes sense. I work in the Services industy and Manufacturing losses in America will not affect my job HOPEFULLY. But you have to remember most of us are selfish and when we can buy something for ourselfs that is Less Expensive, Better Quality and made overseas 9 of 10 of us are going to buy the foregien product.

Bottom line in my book is that Unions probubly need to go.

just my .02