GM Performance Dual Exhaust
#51
05-29-2007, 04:19 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
Just out of curiosity, I looked around to see if Canada has any legislation similar to the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, and could not find anything. I did find several companies that did bio-fuel conversions in Canada who stated there was no suchprotectionin Canada. I also found the following article (sorry for length) that was published in a Canadian paper, where the journalist contacted the Canadian divisions of several automobile manufacturer and asked for their "official" response.From the looks of it, it would appear in Canada we are at the mercy of the manufacturer. Oddly, GM did not send in a response!
Here's the article:
Playing by the rules
By JACK KAZMIERSKI
Jim W., an automotive technician and reader of the Edmonton Sun, e-mailed me a few weeks ago after reading a Mod Squad article about modifying diesel engines. One of Jim's concerns is that "performance modifications can void the factory warranty if the modifications contribute to any mechanical failure."
He further points out, "With any article such as this one, I feel it is vitally important to cover all the issues rather than simply printing what people want to read. As a Ford accredited Master Technician with diesel certification, I often have to talk to customers that have found it all too easy to program in large horsepower and torque gains only to find out that they have exceeded both the design limitations of the engine (or other powertrain assemblies) and their warranty coverage."
Jim's e-mail got me wondering just how much tinkering you have to do to a vehicle before you void your warranty. I asked all the manufacturers to send me their "official positions."
Below you'll find the answers they e-mailed back. This information should help you appreciate how far you can go with your project vehicle before having to worry about warranty issues.
Unfortunately, we couldn't fit all the manufacturers' responses on a single page, so if you don't see the manufacturer of your project vehicle listed below, tune in next week when we run the rest of the responses.
DaimlerChrysler
Basically, if the aftermarket part fails, it's not covered (obviously). In addition, if the aftermarket part causes failure of other parts, they aren't covered either. Here is the corporate word on the subject:
The warranties do not cover repairs required because of non-DaimlerChrysler modifications, installation of special equipment or accessories, or use of special materials, fuels or additives. This includes special bodies, body conversions, fuel system conversions, trailer hitches, window tints, sunroofs, theft alarms, etc. Non-DaimlerChrysler modifications do not by themselves void your warranty, but they are not covered by [our] warranty.
The warranties do not cover parts, equipment, materials or additives not supplied by DaimlerChrysler or not certified for use on your vehicle. Performance and racing parts are considered to be non-DaimlerChrysler parts.
Mitsubishi
Warranty coverage is not excluded just because someone modifies a vehicle. However, the warranty coverage does state that if any such modifications are the cause of a related parts failure then it would not be covered under warranty.
The warranty policy further states that any vehicle used in racing, timed events or other competition type events will not be covered under the new vehicle warranty. Warranty can also be affected by owner abuse such as street racing, overly aggressive driving, etc. if this results in the failure of a related component. Any changes or modifications to a vehicle or it's components that are not approved by or supplied by the manufacturer can and will affect warranty coverage.
Today's vehicles are highly complex machines with advanced safety and electronic controls. For example many new vehicles today are equipped with TPMS (tire pressure mon
Here's the article:
Playing by the rules
By JACK KAZMIERSKI
Jim W., an automotive technician and reader of the Edmonton Sun, e-mailed me a few weeks ago after reading a Mod Squad article about modifying diesel engines. One of Jim's concerns is that "performance modifications can void the factory warranty if the modifications contribute to any mechanical failure."
He further points out, "With any article such as this one, I feel it is vitally important to cover all the issues rather than simply printing what people want to read. As a Ford accredited Master Technician with diesel certification, I often have to talk to customers that have found it all too easy to program in large horsepower and torque gains only to find out that they have exceeded both the design limitations of the engine (or other powertrain assemblies) and their warranty coverage."
Jim's e-mail got me wondering just how much tinkering you have to do to a vehicle before you void your warranty. I asked all the manufacturers to send me their "official positions."
Below you'll find the answers they e-mailed back. This information should help you appreciate how far you can go with your project vehicle before having to worry about warranty issues.
Unfortunately, we couldn't fit all the manufacturers' responses on a single page, so if you don't see the manufacturer of your project vehicle listed below, tune in next week when we run the rest of the responses.
DaimlerChrysler
Basically, if the aftermarket part fails, it's not covered (obviously). In addition, if the aftermarket part causes failure of other parts, they aren't covered either. Here is the corporate word on the subject:
The warranties do not cover repairs required because of non-DaimlerChrysler modifications, installation of special equipment or accessories, or use of special materials, fuels or additives. This includes special bodies, body conversions, fuel system conversions, trailer hitches, window tints, sunroofs, theft alarms, etc. Non-DaimlerChrysler modifications do not by themselves void your warranty, but they are not covered by [our] warranty.
The warranties do not cover parts, equipment, materials or additives not supplied by DaimlerChrysler or not certified for use on your vehicle. Performance and racing parts are considered to be non-DaimlerChrysler parts.
Mitsubishi
Warranty coverage is not excluded just because someone modifies a vehicle. However, the warranty coverage does state that if any such modifications are the cause of a related parts failure then it would not be covered under warranty.
The warranty policy further states that any vehicle used in racing, timed events or other competition type events will not be covered under the new vehicle warranty. Warranty can also be affected by owner abuse such as street racing, overly aggressive driving, etc. if this results in the failure of a related component. Any changes or modifications to a vehicle or it's components that are not approved by or supplied by the manufacturer can and will affect warranty coverage.
Today's vehicles are highly complex machines with advanced safety and electronic controls. For example many new vehicles today are equipped with TPMS (tire pressure mon
#52
05-29-2007, 06:33 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
ORIGINAL: rob85635
I am not so sure it is "still BS!". If you read this portion of the quoted act,"unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty" , it makes it seem possible any company can add a clause stating aftermarket parts void the warranty... yes? no? Seems pretty clear to me.
I have not read the whole act so I am not positive.
Rob
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
The Magnuson Moss Act is available to read...GM document or not, what you said is still BS!..
I have not read the whole act so I am not positive.
Rob
My warranty does not have any such clause written in or implied...So it's still BS.
All in all, if you are worried about it, then make sure you don't add a single thing outside of the OE, cause by the way you read this, you are likely to have no warranty at all, even if you put chrome letteres in your frontbumper...Funny thing though..Some of the major dealers are doing more MODS and aftermarket add-ons, than most people do on their own, including exhaust systems (per this very thread) and Cold air intakes, along with PCM up-grades too...So go figure.
#53
05-30-2007, 06:19 AM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
As a testimonial I had a steering sensor go bad. It caused the stabilitrac to engage. The Service Manager said it was my fault for adding larger 18" aftermarket wheels. I knew he was wrong and had read about the steering sensor problems. I still had my OEM wheels and re-installed them and the problem did not go away. They finally agreed to fix it. They have the power to enforce the warranty violation on aftermarket parts. It depends how user friendly your SM is. Show him the Magnuson Moss act and he will laugh at you!
#54
05-30-2007, 11:39 AM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
I hear ya Darth..some of these Service idiots are morons and can't pour **** out of a boot...your discription of yours sound like he fits that ticket...Sorry you have to have a dealer/service like that, sure takes the fun out of the ownership of the H3...wait a minute... you are talking about another kind of car you have/had, as you don't have a H3 or Hummer of any kind, right?....I would be searching around for another dealer if it's possible as this one sounds like a bunch know nothing ********...So it maybebetter anddifferent experience with a HUMMER dealer instead of the Caddy dealer....And if a lawyer waves the Magnuson Moss act up under his nose..I don't think he will be laughing then.
And AGAIN...The dealers do MORE modifications to the H3's than most typical H3 owners do..So if they MOD it, are warranties in question then?..I think not..cuz, whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.
And AGAIN...The dealers do MORE modifications to the H3's than most typical H3 owners do..So if they MOD it, are warranties in question then?..I think not..cuz, whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.
#55
05-30-2007, 12:34 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
ORIGINAL: Dennis
I hear ya Darth..some of these Service idiots are morons and can't pour **** out of a boot...your discription of yours sound like he fits that ticket...Sorry you have to have a dealer/service like that, sure takes the fun out of the ownership of the H3...wait a minute... you are talking about another kind of car you have/had, as you don't have a H3 or Hummer of any kind, right?....I would be searching around for another dealer if it's possible as this one sounds like a bunch know nothing ********...So it maybebetter anddifferent experience with a HUMMER dealer instead of the Caddy dealer....And if a lawyer waves the Magnuson Moss act up under his nose..I don't think he will be laughing then.
And AGAIN...The dealers do MORE modifications to the H3's than most typical H3 owners do..So if they MOD it, are warranties in question then?..I think not..cuz, whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.
I hear ya Darth..some of these Service idiots are morons and can't pour **** out of a boot...your discription of yours sound like he fits that ticket...Sorry you have to have a dealer/service like that, sure takes the fun out of the ownership of the H3...wait a minute... you are talking about another kind of car you have/had, as you don't have a H3 or Hummer of any kind, right?....I would be searching around for another dealer if it's possible as this one sounds like a bunch know nothing ********...So it maybebetter anddifferent experience with a HUMMER dealer instead of the Caddy dealer....And if a lawyer waves the Magnuson Moss act up under his nose..I don't think he will be laughing then.
And AGAIN...The dealers do MORE modifications to the H3's than most typical H3 owners do..So if they MOD it, are warranties in question then?..I think not..cuz, whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.
[sm=happybounce.gif]
#57
05-30-2007, 01:07 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
ORIGINAL: Dennis
Alright!!![sm=happy046.gif]..Way to go!!!!..Make sure you post plenty of pics....Good luck buddy and enjoy!
Alright!!![sm=happy046.gif]..Way to go!!!!..Make sure you post plenty of pics....Good luck buddy and enjoy!
Is there a link to becoming a "contributor or supporting member"? Any perks with it?
#58
05-30-2007, 01:45 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
Thanks Darth for asking..as you can imagine every little bit helps sustain this forum for you and I to enjoy..there is no minumum and no maximum, just whatever you feel you want to contribute..
The perks are the warm fuzzy as to being a big help and a major part of this HUMMER family..
here is the link..you can find it on the upper right hand side of the main frum page...Once you send in whatever..I will or one of the owners will turn on your Contributor Tag
https://www.hummerforums.com/contributors/
The perks are the warm fuzzy as to being a big help and a major part of this HUMMER family..
here is the link..you can find it on the upper right hand side of the main frum page...Once you send in whatever..I will or one of the owners will turn on your Contributor Tag
https://www.hummerforums.com/contributors/
#59
05-30-2007, 01:51 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
ORIGINAL: Dennis
Thanks Darth for asking..as you can imagine every little bit helps sustain this forum for you and I to enjoy..there is no minumum and no maximum, just whatever you feel you want to contribute..
The perks are the warm fuzzy as to being a big help and a major part of this HUMMER family..
here is the link..you can find it on the upper right hand side of the main frum page...Once you send in whatever..I will or one of the owners will turn on your Contributor Tag
https://www.hummerforums.com/contributors/
Thanks Darth for asking..as you can imagine every little bit helps sustain this forum for you and I to enjoy..there is no minumum and no maximum, just whatever you feel you want to contribute..
The perks are the warm fuzzy as to being a big help and a major part of this HUMMER family..
here is the link..you can find it on the upper right hand side of the main frum page...Once you send in whatever..I will or one of the owners will turn on your Contributor Tag
https://www.hummerforums.com/contributors/
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#60
05-30-2007, 02:18 PM
RE: GM Performance Dual Exhaust
Sorry..that's as good as it gets..
Just being a valued member here is worth ten Caddy forums.....However, become a real active poster and contributorhere without post whoring like some people who shall remain nameless
..then when you get to the TOP 10 list, I will give you a title of your choosing, like Mr Clean or CADDY SHACK...[sm=wootwoot.gif]
Just being a valued member here is worth ten Caddy forums.....However, become a real active poster and contributorhere without post whoring like some people who shall remain nameless..then when you get to the TOP 10 list, I will give you a title of your choosing, like Mr Clean or CADDY SHACK...[sm=wootwoot.gif]