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  #61  
Old 06-15-2024, 10:56 AM
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Indeed, just try and correlate the pads to the connector pins, however for now, concentrate on the ones with burnt out gold wires and see if these relate to your DTC code issues.
 

Last edited by oceanbrave; 06-15-2024 at 02:44 PM.
  #62  
Old 06-15-2024, 06:36 PM
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I checked all pins from the wiring harness to the ABS Module and the ABS Module connector to the golden Pins, I hope it's understandable:

On the Cable tree I have connection from:
Pin 6(stop Lamp supply voltage) to 12(Ground) and 15(Ground)
Pin 12(Ground) to Pin 15(Ground)
Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 12(Ground)
Pin 14(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) and 12(Ground)

On the ABS Module connector Pins to the golden Pins, check the picture.
- Golden Pin 7(Module: Pin 2 Low Reference),and 14 Pin (Module: Pin 15 Ground, Pin 18 Low Reference - are the burned ones
- Golden Pin 15 are the soldered one who are connected with Pin 14 (short circuit?) and have connection to the Module Pin: 15 Ground / 18 Low Reference / 21 Low Reference / 23 Low Reference
- Golden Pin 3 and 20 are Violet market and not connected

Strange one:
- Golden Pin 5 beeps only short (no continuous tone) when I touch from the ABS Module connector Pins 5 Low Reference / 15 Ground / 18 Low Reference
- Golden Pins 2,14,28 beeps when I touch the pins from the ABS Module connector Pins 5 Low Reference / 15 Ground / 18 Low Reference / 21 Low Reference / 23 Low Reference
- Golden Pins 12,13 have a connection the ABS Module connector Pins 14 Battery Positive Voltage and 4 Right front wheel Speed Sensor Signal
- Golden Pin 18 is connected with a wire but connected to the ABS Module Connector Pin 24 not used
- Golden Pins 21,22 are connected with a wire but connected to the ABS Module Connector Pin 25 Class 2 Serial Data and Pin 26 Not used




Please help me I can't get any further, is the Wiring harnes or the module or both defective?
 
  #63  
Old 06-15-2024, 08:26 PM
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You've done a lot of work and produced quite a bit of data, which will take some time to analyze.

So some questions:-
  1. The ECBM pins will be mirrored compared to the harness connector, just need to check you've accounted for that in your pin numbering?
  2. Multimeter resistance readings and continuity checks can be confusing, also multimeters often default to auto-ranging so you may read values via component paths or momentary values as capacitors charge. Capacitors may cause a short beep as they charge. Also some circuits paths may be polarity conscious i.e. they read differently when swapping leads over.
  3. When measuring for continuity, set the meter to the 200R range and look for low ohms < 0.5 Ohms, or if using the Continuity Test function check for a continuous tone.
For example Pin 6 you say "has a connection" but is that a low ohmic value less than 10ohms (unlikely) or is it much higher? I ask this because you also say Pin 13 (Battery Positive) connects to Pin 12(GND) but if that were the case there would be smoke!

When checking for continuity, as a rule of thumb, values less than 10ohms may be considered connected, so scale is important. Similarly continuity test functions (depends on multimeter brand) generally only beep when the resistance is less than a few ohms, momentary beeps can be ignored.

I've added comments to the 1st 4 pins in your list as follows:-

On the Cable tree I have connection from:
Pin 6(stop Lamp supply voltage) to 12(Ground) and 15(Ground) - Very doubtful these are low ohms
Pin 12(Ground) to Pin 15(Ground) -- Very likely to be almost 0 ohms
Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 12(Ground) - Very doubtful these are low ohms
Pin 14(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) and 12(Ground) - This cannot be true, 13 to 14 yes but not 13 as well

When checking for places connected together, typically these will be less than 0.5 Ohms, larger readings can be ignored, if in doubt note the reading.

The other point is "repeatability" if you can measure the same value repeatedly, to a fraction of an ohm, the probes will have good solid connections, fluctuating values generally indicate poor probe connection.

Looking at your pin list, Pin 2 to Gold Pad 7 makes sense, but not Pin 23 to Gold Pads 2/11/14/15, I think if you either check for low ohms, or a continuous tone, you will eliminate some of the "ghost" connections and things will make more sense.

You're almost there , just need the genuinely connections only..
 

Last edited by oceanbrave; 06-15-2024 at 08:31 PM.
  #64  
Old 06-16-2024, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by oceanbrave
You've done a lot of work and produced quite a bit of data, which will take some time to analyze.

So some questions:-
  1. The ECBM pins will be mirrored compared to the harness connector, just need to check you've accounted for that in your pin numbering?
  2. Multimeter resistance readings and continuity checks can be confusing, also multimeters often default to auto-ranging so you may read values via component paths or momentary values as capacitors charge. Capacitors may cause a short beep as they charge. Also some circuits paths may be polarity conscious i.e. they read differently when swapping leads over.
  3. When measuring for continuity, set the meter to the 200R range and look for low ohms < 0.5 Ohms, or if using the Continuity Test function check for a continuous tone.
For example Pin 6 you say "has a connection" but is that a low ohmic value less than 10ohms (unlikely) or is it much higher? I ask this because you also say Pin 13 (Battery Positive) connects to Pin 12(GND) but if that were the case there would be smoke!

When checking for continuity, as a rule of thumb, values less than 10ohms may be considered connected, so scale is important. Similarly continuity test functions (depends on multimeter brand) generally only beep when the resistance is less than a few ohms, momentary beeps can be ignored.

I've added comments to the 1st 4 pins in your list as follows:-

On the Cable tree I have connection from:
Pin 6(stop Lamp supply voltage) to 12(Ground) and 15(Ground) - Very doubtful these are low ohms
Pin 12(Ground) to Pin 15(Ground) -- Very likely to be almost 0 ohms
Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 12(Ground) - Very doubtful these are low ohms
Pin 14(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) and 12(Ground) - This cannot be true, 13 to 14 yes but not 13 as well

When checking for places connected together, typically these will be less than 0.5 Ohms, larger readings can be ignored, if in doubt note the reading.

The other point is "repeatability" if you can measure the same value repeatedly, to a fraction of an ohm, the probes will have good solid connections, fluctuating values generally indicate poor probe connection.

Looking at your pin list, Pin 2 to Gold Pad 7 makes sense, but not Pin 23 to Gold Pads 2/11/14/15, I think if you either check for low ohms, or a continuous tone, you will eliminate some of the "ghost" connections and things will make more sense.

You're almost there , just need the genuinely connections only..
Hello Oceanbreve
Yes the mirroring has been taken into account, the top row is the bottom row and the middle remains the same.
I only did the cintinuity check, without resistance readings. If its necessary of course I will do that.

According to your coments for the cable tree.
The Ohms I must check.
"Pin 14(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) and 12(Ground) - This cannot be true, 13 to 14 yes but not 13 as well"
- Do you mean 12 as well?

How should I eliminate "ghost" connections?

Thank you very much for your effort and work!

Oh yes, yesterday I was confused about the connection and was thinking about to open the other side of the module, to check if any short circuit on the pins inside are, so I open it, but it was the wrong side


And this part would be to risky to open, because of the connector to the pump. At the moment I'm thinking about that but not sure...

 

Last edited by George W; 06-16-2024 at 03:41 AM.
  #65  
Old 06-16-2024, 07:15 AM
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@George W

apologies for asking about mirroring but good to be 100% about the pin numbers.Re "- Do you mean 12 as well?"
Yes, my error, it should have read:-
"Pin 14(Battery Positive Voltage) to Pin 13(Battery Positive Voltage) and 12(Ground) - This cannot be true, 13 to 14 yes but not 12 as well"
it was well past midnight (UK)

Continuity Test functions are good for checking things like cabling, fuses or PCB tracks i.e. things not connected electronically via resistors, inductors, capacitors and semiconductors etc.

To check connection "quality" i.e. low resistance, put the meter on fixed 200 Ohm range, auto-ranging usually takes longer to read.

Re "eliminating ghost connections?"
Impossible, even holding the probes with bare fingers affects measurements, so use the 200R range to be sure, it's always good practice to check the meter and it's leads first by shorting the probe tips together, typically the reading will be between 0.0 and 0.3 i.e. very small.

This will be the value for connections/contacts truly connected together, plus a little for the additional circuitry i.e. less than 0.5 Ohms total.

Sometimes internally within a module, low values of resistor are used to measure current flow through things like solenoids, sensors etc. this is why you will see terminals labelled "Low Reference" these resistance values can be too small for a multimeter to measure accurately, but we can allow for this as we know which ones they are.

I'd really be tempted remove that solder bridge link between 14 to 15 on your excellent diagram, we need to know what Red-14 does, probably a Low Reference, anyway the blob is adding confusion.

Interestingly Red-7 goes exclusively to Pin 2 as both burnt gold wires have melted away due to high current flow, possibly caused by loss of a main ground connection either/both G300 or G308, have you measured these connect solidly to the chassis and inspected them for corrosion? (most important)

The lost Red-7 connection (Low Reference for the Right Wheel Speed sensor) will definitely now cause DTC C0050, the gold wires were clearly intact before the module was repaired, strange this happened?

Bottom line for me, in order:-
  1. Check Pin-12 G300 and Pin-15 G308, a good GND connection to the H2 chassis, inspect the bolts and solder lugs.
  2. Remove the solder blob.
  3. Re-measure Red-1 to Red-33 using meter set to low ohms range, note readings
  4. Reconnect Red-7
  5. Reconnect Red-14
  6. Re-seal ECBM module, fit and re-test
If steps 2-5 above can't be done, the ECBM may need replacing, which may have been the case anyway.

Puzzling is why the accelerometer DTC C0191 error, this may still persist, DTC5050 RR Sensor should be cleared unless there's a harness wiring fault.


 
  #66  
Old 06-16-2024, 11:27 AM
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Everything good, nothing to apologies. ;-)
About mirroring: Pin 12 stays 12 even whenn mirrored. So if i'm not wrong, hahaha.

I will check now again about the resistance and will notice the figures.

to do the soldering on the ABS Module I need a microscope, no chance to see it without.

the Traction control failure is in combination with the ABS Module problem, that was confirmed by 2 specialists.

 
  #67  
Old 06-16-2024, 12:34 PM
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Re Pin 12
You are correct, I should have written "not 12 as well" (a typo) the essential point, there is no way ground connects directly to battery positive.

I have De-soldering stations, microscopes, illuminated magnifiers, however I prefer to use a bright light and wear multiple pairs of glasses to achieve the required magnification. I design and build surface mount PCBs, like the one in the module, and find glasses more practical, comfortable and easy.

Re DTC C0191
This DTC is not directly related to Traction Control but vehicle motion, not sure this error can be confirmed without monitoring the voltage on Pin-10 during acceleration/deceleration, checking the +5V reference on Pin28 and measuring the Lo Ref current on Pin-18. However if Pin-18 connects to Red-14 their assumption would be correct, alternatively it could be a faulty accelerometer P/No 25772009, plug or wiring. again hard to be sure without investigation.

More likely it's the burnt gold-wires to Red-14, perhaps water behind the dash caused a short? (just a theory)
 
  #68  
Old 06-16-2024, 01:52 PM
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So checked now the wiring harness with resistance (i only list these with figures)
The green fat marked one are under 1 Ohm

1:2 = 4.993 K Ohm
4:5 = 1.0269 K Ohm
6:8 = 3.538 K Ohm
6:11 = 3.623 K Ohm
6:12 = 0.75 Ohm
6:13 = 25.7 K Ohm decreasing (it was 3mOhm )
6:14 = 2 M Ohm decreasing
6:15 = 0.81 Ohm
6:25 = 1.306 K Ohm
8:11 = 7.157 K Ohm
8:12 = 3.537 K Ohm
8:13 = 1.5 M Ohm decreasing
8:14 = 1.2 M Ohm decreasing
8:15 = 3.538 K Ohm
8:25 = 4.841 K Ohm
10:18 = 3.14 M Ohm fix
10:28 = 3.15 M Ohm decreasing
11:12 = 3.621 K Ohm
11:13 = 0.43 M Ohm decreasing
11:14 = 0.43 M Ohm decreasing
11:15 = 3.672 K Ohm
11:25 = 4.929 K Ohm
12:13 = 17 K Ohm increasing
12:14 = 1.45 M Ohm decreasing
12:15 = 0.21 Ohm
12:25 = 1.305 K Ohm
13:14 = 0.24 Ohm
13:15 = 6.5 M Ohm decreasing
13:25 = 0.35 M Ohm decreasing
14:15 = 4.7 K Ohm increasing
14:25 = 0.3 M Ohm decreasing
14:15 = 4.7 K Ohm increasing
14:25 = 0.3 M Ohm decreasing
15:25 = 1.305 K Ohm
18:28 = 13.21 K Ohm
20:21 = 1.0065 K Ohm
22:23= 5.208 K Ohm

According to the soldering what you wrote, which soldering wire (the gold thin one) should I buy? I will try it and can you recommend glasses with what magnification of the loupe?
I Also ordred a Microscope buit it need 1 week until its here.
By the way, its possible to drive without the module?

Which makes me wonder all the time why the wires melted after the repair. the repair service thinks there is current power on the ground pin coming to the ABS module...
 

Last edited by George W; 06-16-2024 at 02:34 PM.
  #69  
Old 06-16-2024, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by George W
So checked now the wiring harness with resistance (i only list these with figures)
The green fat marked one are under 1 Ohm

1:2 = 4.993 K Ohm - Right Rear Wheel Speed Sensor

4:5 = 1.0269 K Ohm - Right Front Wheel Speed Sensor

Stop Lamp Switch ? (Possibly Stop Lamp power)
6:8 = 3.538 K Ohm
6:11 = 3.623 K Ohm
6:12 = 0.75 Ohm - Stop Lamp Switch ? (Possibly Stop Lamp)
6:13 = 25.7 K Ohm decreasing (it was 3mOhm )
6:14 = 2 M Ohm decreasing
6:15 = 0.81 Ohm - Stop Lamp Switch ? (Possibly Stop Lamp)
6:25 = 1.306 K Ohm

Pin 8 Ignition 1
8:11 = 7.157 K Ohm
8:12 = 3.537 K Ohm
8:13 = 1.5 M Ohm decreasing
8:14 = 1.2 M Ohm decreasing
8:15 = 3.538 K Ohm
8:25 = 4.841 K Ohm

Brake Fluid Level
9:?? = ????

Pin 10 Longitudinal Accelerometer Signal
10:18 = 3.14 M Ohm fix
10:28 = 3.15 M Ohm decreasing

Pin 11 Traction Control Signal
11:12 = 3.621 K Ohm
11:13 = 0.43 M Ohm decreasing
11:14 = 0.43 M Ohm decreasing
11:15 = 3.672 K Ohm
11:25 = 4.929 K Ohm

Pin 12 = Gnd G300
12:13 = 17 K Ohm increasing
12:14 = 1.45 M Ohm decreasing
12:15 = 0.21 Ohm
12:25 = 1.305 K Ohm

Pin 13 = B+ (ABS FUSE)
13:14 = 0.24 Ohm
13:15 = 6.5 M Ohm decreasing
13:25 = 0.35 M Ohm decreasing

Pin 14 = B+ (Fuse SEQ B2)
14:15 = 4.7 K Ohm increasing
14:25 = 0.3 M Ohm decreasing
14:15 = 4.7 K Ohm increasing
14:25 = 0.3 M Ohm decreasing

Pin15 = GND G308 - This should be very low ohms to Pin 12 !!!!
15:25 = 1.305 K Ohm

18:28 = 13.21 K Ohm - Longitudinal Accelerometer (Power)

20:21 = 1.0065 K Ohm - Left Front Wheel Speed Sensor

22:23= 5.208 K Ohm - Left Rear Wheel Speed Sensor

According to the soldering what you wrote, which soldering wire (the gold thin one) should I buy? I will try it and can you recommend glasses with what magnification of the loupe?
I Also ordred a Microscope buit it need 1 week until its here.
By the way, its possible to drive without the module?

Which makes me wonder all the time why the wires melted after the repair. the repair service thinks there is current power on the ground pin coming to the ABS module...
@George W
As can be seen I've added the key circuit components, for example the Front Wheel sensors have a resistance of aprrox 1KΩ and the Rear Wheel sensors approx 5KΩ

Item that seems odd:
  1. Vital Important Pin 15 is a main ground, it should connect to chassis via Ground G308 and show low resistance to Pin 12 via Ground G300.
​​​​​​
This requires further investigation, so please re-measure and double check ✔️✔️

 

Last edited by oceanbrave; 06-16-2024 at 07:33 PM.
  #70  
Old 06-16-2024, 11:53 PM
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@oceanbrave
Thanks for the answer and adding the key circuit components
Pin 15 have low resistance of 0.21 Ohm, take a look to Pin 12:15 = 0.21 Ohm

According to the Brake fluid level Pin 9
Should I have any figures there? I will check again
 


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